Curse

naja · Aug 13, 2006, 12:15 AM // 00:15

My character is a legendary survivor who died today after accumulating over 2.6 million experience. She did every quest in Tyria and Cantha as well as most of the Underworld and the Fissure of Woe. Needless to say, I was very frustrated and brokenhearted when she finally fell to the hands…err horns of an angry ataxx. To commemorate her loss, I’ve decided to post my suggestion for an improvement to the survivor titles which will hopefully benefit survivors as well as those who do not think so highly of the title track.

Here’s my proposal:
Make a quest that allows survivors to remove their deaths from the death counter. To make it fit better into the Guild Wars universe, the folks at Anet could have a reaper in some remote area of the Underworld (e.g. the chaos plains), give this quest. The reaper would say something like, “When great heroes die, their souls must wait deep within the depths of the Underworld before their final judgment at the hand of Grenth. It is during this time that the soul can be freed and escape to the mortal realm” (this makes sense too in light of the Shiro story).
To redeem oneself, the player has to partake in this difficult quest to get their soul back. If the player succeeds, the completion of the quest would reset the death counter. However, upon completion of the quest, any experience that the player had accumulated towards the next survivor title would be reset. For instance, if an indomitable survivor died after accumulating 800,000 experience, the person’s total experience and the experience displayed on the survivor title track would be reset back 587,500, setting that person back to the beginning of indomitable survivor. This would still make the survivor titles challenging and also encourage players not to die again.

Here are some of the advantages that I could think of for this change:
1. Many players have a favorite character that they have worked on for a long time and most were around before Anet began the title track system. By implementing my proposal, it would allow everyone a chance to obtain the survivor titles if they wished.
2. Most players devote the majority of their time toward their survivor characters. By allowing these players to reset their death counter, it would save them from a great deal of frustration. Restarting a character is not only time consuming but expensive as well.
3. In addition survivors may be more willing to compete in the Canthan challenge missions (where every group eventually fails) and help guildies out in difficult quests because they know that the can always remove their deaths later.
4. The folks at Anet have recently been adding more tiers to the different title tracks although they have not raised the bar on the survivor titles. With the system I proposed, it would be feasible to create additional tiers for the survivor title track, and if Anet were to make each subsequent tier more difficult to attain, the track would still maintain its hardcore aspect and integrity by discouraging power leveling. For those folks who committed suicide after they reached the legendary survivor tier, my proposal would also give them a chance to redeem themselves and work for higher titles.
5. By allowing players who have died the opportunity to reset the death counter, this would reduce the chance of them bailing during a tough spot in a mission, which would help those not working toward the title track.
6. Finally, I think that having a quest in the Underworld for this purpose is rather fitting. One of the things that Anet has tried to do is prevent people from farming there; by implementing my proposal, it would encourage more players to actually do the quests and make gaining experience after level 20 worthwhile.

Let me know what you think.

dargon · Aug 13, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Out of curiosity, why does it matter for you, you went way beyond legendary, which is the top level for the title. You don't loose the title by dieing.

naja · Aug 13, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

When you've pretty much done everything that can be done in PvE, all that you're really left with aside from PvP is gaining experience through challenging missions (or farming, which I never cared for). I personally like to see the work I did accumulating through the survivor track even though there was not another title after it. If you look at how many titles received new tiers with the recent updates, do you really think that legendary survivor would be the end all and be all to the survivor titles? I think that someone could get (or at least come very close to) legendary survivor if he or she just capped every skill and did every quest and mission in Tyria and Cantha. It seems logical that Anet would eventually up the requirements once Elona and subsequent expansions come out, and if that happens, I want another shot.

sykoone · Aug 13, 2006, 04:01 AM // 04:01

/signed

A great way to let older characters give the survivor title a try.

Samuel Dravis · Aug 13, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

I like it. All of my characters were created before factions and had died a lot; I'd be nice to be able to actually get the title instead of it being locked away for people who want to make new characters.

Bane of Worlds · Aug 13, 2006, 04:13 AM // 04:13

/signed

ShadowStorm · Aug 13, 2006, 08:35 AM // 08:35

There have been a lot of threads like this. Most of them have been shot down because of one main reason:

Resetting your deaths makes the Survivor title morally (not sure if this is the right word for the situation) worthless.

In your mind, you'll know that you have died with that character, even if the game has erased the actual event from happening. It won't feel the same. Sure, you'll be able to wear the title around everywhere and show off, but it won't mean anything. It'll feel fake because it is fake.

And for the survivors out there that are still survivors, if something in the game is implemented to reset deaths, they'll feel cheated. Suddenly the title they've been working on for so long will become less respectible, less important, less worthwhile, and less of a status symbol. It wouldn't be fair to them.

*Now for my 2 cents on the subject*
The only concievable compromise I could see for this, is a one time thing. If you could only cheat death once, it wouldn't have the sort of impact I was talking about above. That way characters that were made before the title was available would have a shot at the title. And it would make people who worked hard to get where they were on the title track only to die because of lag, happier. However, the quest to cheat death would have to be incredibly difficult, and if you died again while trying to complete the quest, you should fail it. That's my opinion.

Sereng Amaranth · Aug 13, 2006, 08:54 AM // 08:54

total 'deaths' wipe? no
-1 to 'deaths'? yes
repeatable? no

Basically the same thing ShadowStorm said.

ShadowStorm · Aug 13, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sereng Amaranth

total 'deaths' wipe? no
-1 to 'deaths'? yes
repeatable? no

Basically the same thing ShadowStorm said.

Maybe they could make a special case only for characters that were made before the title track was available. Do a complete death wipe for them instead of a -1 to deaths. Everything else the same though. I say this because if it were only -1 to deaths for everyone, then the characters who never had a chance at the title (or rather, never realized there would be an opportunity to display it) would still not have a chance at it.

Cybah · Aug 13, 2006, 10:01 AM // 10:01

/signed for total deaths wipe

Mars Dragonblade · Aug 13, 2006, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Your reasoning and logic is good and I agree with everything you've suggested, but at the same time I understand where ShadowStorm and Sereng are coming from.

/Signed, but only if there was a strict limit in the number of times you can redeem your deaths.

Cybah · Aug 13, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

yeah a strict limit in the number of times you can redeem ALL your deaths.

eightyfour-onesevenfive · Aug 13, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowStorm

The only concievable compromise I could see for this, is a one time thing. If you could only cheat death once, it wouldn't have the sort of impact I was talking about above. That way characters that were made before the title was available would have a shot at the title. And it would make people who worked hard to get where they were on the title track only to die because of lag, happier. However, the quest to cheat death would have to be incredibly difficult, and if you died again while trying to complete the quest, you should fail it. That's my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowStorm

Maybe they could make a special case only for characters that were made before the title track was available. Do a complete death wipe for them instead of a -1 to deaths. Everything else the same though. I say this because if it were only -1 to deaths for everyone, then the characters who never had a chance at the title (or rather, never realized there would be an opportunity to display it) would still not have a chance at it.

Now that is something I would agree on (although I don't know if I actually would want to remove the millions of XP I have accumulated on some of my old chars

).
/signed

naja · Aug 14, 2006, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Resetting your deaths makes the Survivor title morally (not sure if this is the right word for the situation) worthless.

In your mind, you'll know that you have died with that character, even if the game has erased the actual event from happening. It won't feel the same. Sure, you'll be able to wear the title around everywhere and show off, but it won't mean anything. It'll feel fake because it is fake.

And for the survivors out there that are still survivors, if something in the game is implemented to reset deaths, they'll feel cheated. Suddenly the title they've been working on for so long will become less respectible, less important, less worthwhile, and less of a status symbol. It wouldn't be fair to them.

I suppose a lot of people look at the survivor title the same way that you do and that’s currently what the survivor title is: accumulating a set amount of experience without ever dying. However you could also look at it as simply accumulating a certain amount of experience without dying across a single tier, which would still be a very challenging feat and would not feel “fake” if Anet decides to up the tier system. Once you got to the higher tiers, it would essentially be like playing in hardcore mode, since the experience penalty for dying would be so severe.

This is sort of analogous to Diablo 2’s non-hardcore system where you are penalized for dying between levels, and I think that this form of survivor system is better than the strictly hardcore ideal that Shadowstorm mentioned. Although Diablo 2 allowed you to party up with different players, the game was essentially a single player game in that you could pretty much beat everything by yourself. Due to that reason, a strict hardcore mode is fine because when you die, it’s almost entirely your responsibility (except for lag death). However, Guild Wars is not like that. There are certain missions and quests (e.g. final assault, titan source) that are impossible to do without people, and playing with a group adds in factors that you cannot fully control, like the player’s skill choices and their ability.

Perhaps a compromise that would incorporate everyone’s suggestions is to have this quest be repeatable but to take off only one death for any character created after the title system and a complete death and experience wipe for characters created before the title system the first time this quest is completed. All subsequent quest completions would only remove one death to discourage careless playing. Note that the quest system for death counter redemption is nice because non-hardcore players who do not wish to have their experience wiped simply don’t have to do the quest.

dare49devil · Aug 14, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59

Experience stripping would not work. Does that mean they take away your skill points too? What if you used them already? Does it go further and strip the skills you bought with the skill points which don't really exist cuz u dont have that xp?

Why are you guys trying to get around the fact that your char died. Ok, you died, face it.

sm2006 · Aug 14, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

/signed we need it cuz if we had already alot of deaths b4 the title thing started then that sucks

Kidney Licker · Aug 14, 2006, 11:05 AM // 11:05

/unsigned

The simple exploit to this is to complete a whole lot of quests without getting the rewards, get a death wipe then gather the rewards. If you put a character on hold until say chapter 4 comes out then there should be enough exp points from quests to bring you a lot of exp.

legion_rat · Aug 14, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

how bout a new title for the old chars. Survior is just that, if you died then you are not a survivor. How about a title for all the quests you do since there is one for missions. But as far as cheating death, there were people playing for survivor title before it ever came out. not for the title just to say

"I got lvl 20 with no deaths"

I have had the survivor title (r/mo ftw) but after he died I didnt cry about it. I was just happy to get the title anyway. Plus if you have some retard that has died 99999999999999999999 times because hes is well a retard then he does the mission he looks like a good player and you take him into your party to see him die again.

(yay I'm ranting)

Also it takes away from the title itself. There are people who havent spent 1,500 hours (my total) playing but did get the title through smart play. Now you are taking that well earned title (and u played well to get yours) and making it so it means nothing.

I like the idea of a new mission/quest but make it for a new title

title track Unbound

everytime you do the quest you lose 1 death from counter. if you are able to lose total death count you are given Unbound title. Heres the evil part. You can NOT die during quest. I would suggest making it a solo thing since its your soul we're saving, but a party of people would be more fair.

~the dont let the 3 headed dog bite you on the way out Rat~

Samuel Dravis · Aug 15, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dare49devil

Why are you guys trying to get around the fact that your char died. Ok, you died, face it.

But they died before the title was available. I only have a few hundred deaths on my characters even though they were created at release. I'm not 'bad' at the game; I just didn't worry about deaths at all since they really didn't matter - I wasn't going to jump ship when things went badly just to avoid a meaningless thing like an increased death count. I'd like to have the title now, but since I've died previously (when there was no reason to think anything of it) I can't get it. If it's just a trick to make me buy factions, well I did. And I still can't get the title. Which makes me annoyed, because none of my favorite characters can get it. If it were up to me, people would be able to get the title based on living streaks, not living with no deaths at all. So like I've stayed alive for 1337 million xp without dying - now I get the title. Yay? Yay. That's what I thought it acted like when it was announced anyway.

Xpl0iter · Aug 15, 2006, 03:14 PM // 15:14

As far as i see, I have 3 char with over 2 million expereince. One of which is my favourite char. I have spent great deal of time on that specific char and wanted to get my survivor title. I have died numerous times due to the fact that, i can never attain survivor title on this character and there is no point in running away from death.

Let me suggest this:
A quest, just like the one we have in Cantha for Luxon and Kurzick Factions of 10,000.
Set it up like this:

Quest is not repeatable.
Once, taken the quest, can't be abandoned since it is going to have no affects on your surroundings. Your enemies will remain the very same. (Unless, this person has had no deaths since the quest was taken. In that situation, quest should let the person abandon it)
Once that person dies while the quest was active. The quest fails and is not repeatable.
From the point, when the quest was taken, Experience till that moment is noted down in Quest's Logs of that Character. Lets say, 4 million expereince. After that, the behaviour of quest should remain the same as the original Survivor title's.

I assume this changes the need of wiping the death counter? Easier to implement if i am not wrong, when compared to other suggestions and makes more sense.

Bythe way /Signed ( I want to see my ele with survivor title )